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NOTE: Several have written in the past and said they were afraid. Most of this fear has now turned out to be unfounded or inflated. God does not want our life to be ruled by fear. Ask Him to give you peace and discernment and He will. As we trust in God, He will always see us through.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (II Timothy 1:7)

“I sought the LORD, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears.” (Psalms 34:4)

“Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.” (I Peter 5:7)

David Pack Predicting Christ Will Return This Year:

January 6, 2020

Pack is predicting that Christ will return this year. I am sure he will get new members because of the current situation with Iran. He is also sure that when Christ returns it will be on a Sabbath. He has given many predictions over the years, none of which have come true. –OH

Pack Has Lost Members:

January 30, 2020

As I understand it, Dave Pack lost several members over his failed predictions. –N. M.

Info on United Church of God:

February 18, 2020

Joe Horchak, a minister in United Church of God [brother of Doug Horchak minister in COGWA], was caught faking numbers for more money in his congregation. He was also big into gossip and putting people down (especially member’s wives). He recently was let go, however.

There are about 7,000 members in UCG but those numbers are being reduced drastically due to the fact that the majority of the members are older. A lot of people who have been hurt by UCG leave to go to COGWA. All these splinters are a dying group, though. –[name withheld]

Article Was Comforting:

February 18, 2020

I re-read the article The Law of Moses and the Grace of God. It explains more than we ever learned in any HWA offshoot. It is a real comfort to me. –Anonymous

Under God’s Wings:

February 24, 2020

In your new section Comfort for Those Who are Sorrowing, I was reading the one, “Under God’s Wings.” It’s very comforting. Miller draws a lot of analogies from Scripture that are relevant; I like that also. –One who has sorrow

Tkach Was Weaving in and out of the Truth:

February 24, 2020

The name Tkach apparently means “weaver” as this is what we were told in the WCG. One person in the WCG referred to Tkach as “weaving in and out of the Truth” when Tkach started making subtle changes to customs such as clapping for special music, etc., beginning in the late 1980s before most members (who seemed to be in it for the social aspect of membership) had a clue of what was to come. –Former WCG member

Almost Got Roped Into Restored Church of God:

March 2, 2020

It must have been God intervening. I was very close to getting roped into the Restored Church of God, when I opened a link to your website!  –A.

Only Questioning the Ministry and Not the Doctrine:

March 2, 2020

These people who are in the offshoots of WCG get their faith shaken up when they get in trouble with the ministry. Unfortunately they only question the ministry or the group they’re in, but never the doctrine–or only parts of the doctrine but not all of it. It’s hard to give that up. I’ve given it up completely because I took the time to research every aspect of it and realized how much WCG lied, covered up and distorted the truth! It’s sad to see people still in slavery but they choose to stay there. –Former member

Found Your Site on RCG and Now Questioning What to Do:

March 4, 2020

I have been in contact with a minister from the RCG and working my way closer to attending Sabbath services. I just found your site today and it has me questioning what I should do. According to what I have read, it appears that David Pack has said a few things that don’t quite line up with scripture.

My concern is that I don’t want to get involved with any group who is not following the truth of the Bible (God’s Word). I would appreciate any comments or advice that you would be willing to offer. –[name withheld]

Reply: Pack has been known to use fear, guilt and intimidation in order to exploit members financially. Since he elevates Herbert Armstrong as the one whom God “restored His truths” to, it would be wise to see our section on “Herbert W. Armstrong.” We should always research the background of any church or group we are planning on joining and giving our money and life to. This includes the founder and where he actually got his doctrines from. If they are legitimate they should be able to stand up to any historical and background check on them.

Question About Therapy:

March 6, 2020

First off: Thank you for making this website; you probably have some idea how much I appreciate it.

Secondly: would WWCG indoctrination practices line up with ritualistic abuse as well as spiritual abuse? (I am in the process of starting therapy, and just looking for information to narrow my searches for a good fit!) thank you for your insight. –J. S.

Reply: If by ritualistic abuse you mean satanic abuse, not as far as I know. But horrendous physical, emotional, sexual and spiritual abuse, yes. We mention on the site that it is helpful to find a therapist who is knowledgeable with trauma, mind control and cultic abuse and/or abusive religious groups. Make sure you have visited our section on Mind Control & Exploitation. I hope all goes well with your therapy.

I am Praying Against False Doctrines:

March 10, 2020

Thank you for publishing your warnings. I recently met a guy involved with Fred Coulter. I am deeply saddened by several I know who have been deceived and am taking it as a sign to study more myself and pray against false doctrines. –D. G.

So Little of What They Teach is About God:

March 11, 2020

I can’t believe anyone in their right mind would even consider going with David Pack, or Gerald Flurry. These two tyrants are the worst that the offshoots of the WCG have to offer! So little of what they teach is about God. It’s mostly about Herbert Armstrong, themselves, and the “work” that they are doing. –Ex member RCG/PCG

Stay at Home and Read the Bible Instead of Listening Online to Services:

March 18, 2020

It would be nice to see people stay home and just read their Bibles, instead of listening online to services.

So far, I haven’t heard of any members having the coronavirus or dying from it. –Former member of WCG, RCG, PCG

Flawed Leadership:

March 19, 2020

I once was as much a victim as many are. But once Garner Ted and the masseuse thing came up, that was the first time I actually realized that the Armstrongs were very flawed. That freed me.

HWA kept his membership from reading anything forbidden by him, like the Ambassador Report. As long as the flawed leadership remains in power, we will continue to see people that will justify the system. We cannot correct a flawed system with the same flawed leaders. –Former WCG member

You Helped Me Immensely:

April 19, 2020

I just want to tell you thank you so much for doing all the hard work of building and maintaining ESN. You helped me immensely and I’m sure many other people. It truly was a miracle that I found the site when I did.

Ever Grateful. –Missouri

I Discovered That Aaron Budjen Is a Modalist in His Doctrine of God:

April 20, 2020

Good day. I have listened to Aaron Budjen’s recordings about the Trinity. I discovered that he is a modalist in his doctrine of God, similar to Oneness Theology of UPCI [United Pentecostal Church International]. What do you think of this man? I love to listen to his audio recordings, since they deal with the issues regarding law and grace, faith and works, and that he does not teach money-based tithing. But as I listened to his four archives of one topic about the Trinity, I discovered he is not a Trinitarian. He is like that of the followers of Watchman Nee who seem to be Trinitarians but are actually Oneness in theology.

Aaron Budjen said in his recordings that about the Father, he thinks of God as the Creator. About the Son, he thinks of God as the One who died for him. About the Holy Spirit, he thinks of God as the One who dwells in him — but the three are one and the “same person.” The words in quotation marks are from his own words. I caught him of his modalism because he made analogy of the Trinity using water, steam, and ice. Only Oneness Pentecostals and Modalists use this analogy of the Godhead.

I hope you have a good reply. God bless. –J. S.

Reply: Aaron of Living God Ministries has said he “does not consider himself a modalist.” He has stated that those who believe in the Trinity believe there are “three Gods sitting on a throne” in Heaven (which is false).

Since Aaron has produced some good messages on law and grace, tithing and baptism, we still link to those. Listeners should just beware of his apparent modalism. Read: The Eternal Sonship of Christ by George W. Zeller and Renald E. Showers.

James Gives Opinion on Aaron Budjen:

April 20, 2020

Regarding the above email, I don’t claim to be a scholar, but it “surely” looks to me that Aaron does not believe nor teach the Christian orthodox view of the Trinity.  I listened to a few of his short teachings, about 28 minutes long.

On his Trinity tape, # 3, he states concerning John 14,9-17, “The Lord Jesus was actually identifying himself as the Father.” Aaron will make statements as the following, “When you get to Heaven, will you ask Jesus, Will you show me the Father?” “How many thrones will you see in Heaven?” This does not sound like a Trinitarian to me.

His Trinity tape, # 4, is just as confusing. “God reveals himself in different manifestations, and in distinct ways.” Colossians 1 he gets around as the Son is the Creator. He states “The Holy Spirit is not a distinct person.” When Jesus is praying to the Father, he states, “He’s praying to himself. God talks to himself, just like you talk to yourself…”

Aaron’s tape on Hebrews 1:2-13, (I only listened to the first 19 minutes), he states “The Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son.” Again he states “The Son is the Father.” Again he states, “Jesus is the Father, and the Father is Jesus.”  Aaron also makes the statement that “At the end of John’s Gospel, letter, John expresses that the disciples spoke to the Lord Jesus not really understanding that he was ‘truly‘ the Father”

Aaron will make other statements such as “From a different perspective you can look at Trinitarianism as though it truly is Tritheism.” He thinks the illustration of water is a good illustration of who God is, and states “God manifests in different forms, different manifestations, reveals himself in different ways,” and so on. Tape, #2.

Also his “Statement of Faith” has nothing to say about the Trinity, although it states that “Jesus is God.”


Comment: Read: The Eternal Sonship of Christ by George W. Zeller and Renald E. Showers.

Update: Read James first letter to ESN: “Never Seen Such a Lack of Discernment in My Life

GCI Still Mixing the Old With the New:

April 23, 2020

You may be aware of GCI’s views on giving. I was reading through their article, “Money: Three Reasons to Give.” It’s the same old game, especially where it’s mentioned as a command to give. They’ve mixed the old with the new and added their new Evangelical language–page after page of this nonsense.

Read through the giving spiel and let me know your thoughts. –Canada

Comment: Due to its length, our reply has been moved to What in the World is Worldwide Church of God Doing Now? under Three Reasons to Give.”

Revised History of WCG:

(2nd email from person above)

April 23, 2020

Exactly my thoughts–and, yes, it’s like the Tkach sermon. They borrowed from it.

We know from Tkach Jr’s Transformed by Truth that GCI revised the true history of WCG. I know you are aware that these blatant lies are for all to see on GCI website, especially their About Us / History page.

When I peruse through their website, I am amazed how huge they appear to be. In the 90s all the lies they spoke about losing money since they let tithing go. Seriously?? –Canada

Seeking Information on Victor Kubic:

April 29, 2020

I’ve read some of the horror stories of people abused by the Worldwide Church of God and its offshoots. Very, very sad. I feel for them.

I’m seeking information on Victor Kubic, currently the President of the United Church of God-An International Association.

I wonder if you have any material or references on him, specifically during his time in the Worldwide Church of God when he fired and/or disfellowshipped people who did not accept or agree with Tkach Sr.’s doctrinal changes.

Appreciate any help you can give.

Regards, John

Reply: Victor Kubic is mentioned in our OIU Newsletter #4, Pt. 3, and OIU Newsletter #6, Pt. 6 (his name is misspelled in OIU 6 as Kubic). The OIUs can be downloaded by going to the PDF downloads page. Just search for that spelling of his name when those open up.

He is briefly mentioned in Letter Exposing Outright Lies, Abuses and Sociopathic Behavior.

He is also covered in UCG Crisis Continues To Boil: Income Down, Less Ministers, Less Members [offsite link]

So Thankful for Your Article:

May 3, 2020

I just red the article: “Why Do So Many Exiters Turn to Atheism?” That was the article I always felt in my heart and yet could never put it in words myself. This is what I always wanted to say. I’m so thankful for it. I’m not a writing type person or even a speaker at any level, I have not been gifted in this area. My heart can tell a story, but never express it in words. Thank you, God, for sharing the words of this person with my heart. –MKL

Is Dousing for Water Occult Divination?

May 15, 2020

I have been dousing for water a long time and somebody has just told me that dousing was actually divination and that it was wrong. I use my dousing rods in the same category as using a metal detector. Just like another gadget. I just don’t think I have been doing anything wrong all these years, although my friend thinks I
have been.

What are your views on using these gadgets? I look forward to your reply.  — R. H.

Reply: Dousing is an occult practice and is mentioned in the book Occult ABC by Kurt E. Koch as the rod and pendulum. (His book is listed on our Booklist under The Occult/New Age Movement.) Koch says that this “gift” in being able to find water with the rod or pendulum is passed on in families.

I would get rid of these rods immediately, denounce your participation in this, and ask Christ to set you free. Please see this section on our site: Prayers for Freedom From Spiritual Strongholds. The rod and pendulum is mentioned in the 3rd prayer: “Confession and Freedom From Specific Cult/Occult Strongholds.”

As far as metal detectors, I don’t think they are the same as these dousing rods.

Thank you for writing. I hope this is helpful.

Can’t Reason With Those Deceived by RCG:

May 17 2020

People who have a loved one that has been deceived by RCG often don’t fully understand what the RCG is. They think they can reason with them like they were a member of a regular Christian church. They can’t. That person is completely controlled by the RCG and will believe whatever they are told regardless of anything anyone else says. They become cold and distant to those who do not applaud their decision to sacrifice everything for this group. It is horrible that men (and women) can be so deceived by a group that looks so good on the outside but which can cause irreparable pain and damage to so many families. –Impacted by RCG

These Words Encouraged Me:

May 22, 2020

I really liked the message of comfort that the free verse “It Was Christ” gives. It encouraged me as I’m going through a difficult time. –Impacted

What Happens to Those Who Leave?

June 3, 2020

Hello, I am Spanish and I have read something of your page found by chance.

I’ve been through several churches and I only have one question. All these people, who say that in the churches where they have been are all false and that they have studied the Scriptures, and have found many falsehoods, have they formed their own churches? They are independent? Or what they have done?

Thank you. Mario V.

Reply: Hello, these groups like PCG, RCG, LCG, etc. they are not considered “churches.” They have the marks of Bible-based cults that exploit people financially and control their lives. A few may leave and start their own splinter group, but many of them go nowhere. Some study their Bible at home and have trusted only Christ. If you attend or listen to a church, it should be one that teaches salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ. Thanks for writing.


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