Wayne Turgeon Emphasizes That Christ Only Died for PCG Members

Following is a sermon transcript sent to ESN where Wayne Turgeon emphasized that Christ only died for those in the one true church (i.e., PCG members). It was given in March 2021 before he moved to Edstone.

We have turned this transcript into an article. It is unique in that it shows the true gospel, the true Jesus and the true God. Since PCG does not fathom the true gospel (I Corinthians 15:1-4), what is contained therein was “another gospel.” (Galatians 1:6) The sermon was found to be a mixture of truth and lies with heretical statements throughout. In some parts it was almost blasphemous.

WT=Wayne Turgeon

Comments by ESN in purple font.

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

The sermon was entitled “Christ Died for Our Sins” but the words Died and Our were to be emphasized and Turgeon said to be sure and underline those two words. He kept saying Christ died for our sins and understanding that so we can be worthy to partake of Passover (which is only for baptized members of PCG).

COMMENT: Making members believe that Christ died only for them (PCG members in the “one true church”) is contrary to the Scriptures. Christ “died for all“; Jesus was the “Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world;” Jesus died for sins “once for all“; Jesus “put away sin.” (Read: The Sin Question) Christ has already made us worthy. We received His righteousness when we accepted Him as our Savior. (II Corinthians 5:21)

WT: “Isn’t Christ’s life worth more than we dump sheep?”

COMMENT: Members are always referred to as “dump sheep” even though he used the word “we.”

WT: “We have been given the forgiveness of our sins–but [also] so many other perks and fringe benefits of being the tiny few first fruits on this earth.” Then he told how he is quickly realizing those “perks and fringe benefits” as he looks around at the things at HQs.

COMMENT: This is materialism which the Flurries preach against.

WT: “Our eternal life won’t be in danger if we remain faithful.”

COMMENT: Where does the Bible say that? John 10:28 says, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” But PCG does not believe in the assurance of salvation. See Q&A “Can we ever lose our salvation?“

WT: “This world always wants to follow men without following Christ.”

COMMENT: Isn’t that what those did who followed HWA and who now follow GF? Read: Was Herbert Armstrong God’s True Servant? While this article talks about how we felt toward HWA, it can also apply to GF.

WT: “We will go astray if we are following a man who is not following Christ. … The true sheep follow the man as he follows Christ.”

COMMENT: Where in the bible does it say that? Jesus said over and over again “Follow me.” (Look up the words in the N. T.) There is no mention of “following a man.” In the Robert Gerringer Letter we find the following words: (which hold true with PCG today)

Both Paul and Herbert W. Armstrong have said “Follow me as I follow Christ,” or in other words “as I follow the Bible.” Yet these words are rendered empty and meaningless when we are told we must leave certain decisions up to “the church,” and that if we don’t think a decision constitutes “following Christ,” we must abide by it anyway, since “it is ‘the church’s’ responsibility.”

WT: “We have to look to the man as he follows Jesus Christ.”

COMMENT: Is separating families and causing pain, misery and even death as a result of the no contact ruling “following Christ”??

WT: “They follow the Spirit of God if they are true Christians.”

COMMENT: I thought PCG only believed the Holy Spirit was a power? How can you follow a power?

WT: “We can hear Christ’s voice as He speaks through the individual He has selected?” (speaking of GF)

WT: “Don’t take God’s man for granted.” (speaking of those who see GF daily at HQ)

LIE: “The history of our church [PCG] nearly, several times, almost went out of existence.”

COMMENT: Read: True Original Church/Faith Once Delivered (Proof Herbert Armstrong Lied About the “Lost” Church Century)

LIE: WT: “It’s not an easy process to stay true Christians.”

COMMENT: This implies continual effort. Our salvation doesn’t depend on us; it depends on God who will keep us. Christ is able to keep His own. “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy” (Jude 1:24) Jesus watches over and takes care of His sheep and He knows who they are. He says not one will be lost (Matt. 18:12; John 10:28-29).

OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENT: WT: Tells a story about one way to stay reconciled to Jesus Christ (even though Christians are already reconciled to God: Colossians 1:21; ii Corinthians 5:28, etc.) by telling what a deacon friend once said to him, “You will never leave the Truth if you keep your nose stuck in church literature (i.e, PCG literature), you will never leave the church.”

COMMENT: This will maintain control over member’s minds and keep them focused on PCG’s false gospel, memorizing it, and not thinking for themselves.

WT: Told another story about how many years ago he stopped at a member’s home in the middle of nowhere with no other members around for miles and one wall of a bedroom from ceiling down to floor was filled with all of the church literature (WCG, PCG). On the Sabbath and Holy Days they would “study, and study and study all the literature of God” (i.e., HWA literature)

COMMENT: I wonder if they had any children and what they were made to do?

WT: He said it was an “incredible” and “wonderful” example. “So keep hungering and thirsting after God’s righteousness. You can never get get too full, and it will help replace more and more sin because there just will not be room for it (as much) in our lives.”

COMMENT: What does the Bible say? “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:18) “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22)

LIE: WT: “Christ died for our past sins and we must continually repent of the ones we keep making.”

COMMENT: Christ died for all our sins, past, present and future. The sin question is no more. Bob George Ministries is good ministry to refute this lie as they have timeless teachings on the complete forgiveness and unconditional love of Jesus Christ. Excellent Bible studies on the New Covenant.

OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENT: WT: “[Christ in the grave] was dead, dead, dead.”

COMMENT: He took this belief from HWA which was a doctrine HWA plagiarized from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The truth is that while Christ’s body was dead He remained alive because God can’t die and Jesus was fully God and fully man. Also, if he was “dead, dead, dead” as Turgeon likes to say, then how did Christ raise Himself from the grave? The Scriptures show that the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus all had a part in raising Him from the dead. (John 2:19; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1: 17,20; Romans 8:11)

LIE: WT: “Christ came to earth with the risk that He might fail.”

COMMENT: This is a heretical statement. Christ could never have failed because He was God.

LIE: WT: “Christ died when he was pierced with a sword.”

COMMENT: It says in John 19:33 that Jesus was “dead already.” Then the next verse says, “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.” The separation of the water from the blood is an undeniable medical confirmation of death as it only takes place after death. He was already dead before the sword pierced his side.

WT: “We are each responsible for that state that He had to go through–putting our Savior to death–cold blooded murder.

COMMENT: This is placing the blame on the members in the most graphic detail in spite of how the Scriptures plainly say that Christ died for our sins. (John 10:17, 18; I Cor. 15:3)

LIE AND BLAME: WT: “There are more true Christians gathered here (at headquarters) than anywhere else on this earth. … That means there are more saints guilty of Christ’s murder right here in this room.”

COMMENT: Christ said it was finished. The Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” Refer again to The Sin Question

LIE: WT: “Christ emptied Himself of deity.”

COMMENT: It was the Gnostics in the early church that said Christ emptied Himself of His deity. That is not substantiated anywhere in Scripture. He was always 100% God. He emptied Himself of the prerogatives of deity. He lived with certain limitations on this earth, but they were self-limitations. There was never a moment when He wasn’t God. (J. Vernon McGee, Thru the Bible, Vol. 5, Philippians 2:7)

WT: “Christ is our High Priest, our Mediator, our Advocate.” (emphasized the words “our” meaning the PCG members, when it actually refers to all Christians.)

LIE: WT: “We are the begotten children of God.”

COMMENT: The Bible says Christians are the children of God.

WT: “Christ’s crucifixion was a bloody act that is disgusting to think about.” (In another place he called it a “gory” ordeal.)

WT: “I have a knee jerk reaction of defense when I am corrected initially. Ask people that work with me. I will hit you back about ten times as hard if you hit me one time. And I’m also like the governor of that state (New York) where I will never admit that I may have done something inappropriate–even if I did. … Praying for redirection is still something that is very difficult for me to do.”

LIE: WT: Referred to SF’s sermon where he talked about a so-called Plan B where God planned to “reproduce Himself through man.” … “Christ died so this ‘plan‘ could come about.”

COMMENT: This heretical statement was put forth by HWA and has been debunked in both of our critical reviews of Mystery of the Ages. (available in PDF) It was God’s plan from the very beginning to die for our sins, not just at the time Adam and Eve sinned. Before He laid the foundation of the world Jesus knew man would sin and perish without his help. See: “Was it God’s plan from the beginning for Jesus to die for the sins of mankind?” [offsite article]

LIE: WT: “Christ could die because His Father was God and Mary was his human mother and that he was part God.”

COMMENT: This is discounting Christ’s sinless life and is a heretical statement as Jesus was fully God and fully man. (Read: The Two Natures of Jesus) He said Christ came to earth with the “risk that He might fail.” HWA was known to say that Jesus “could have sinned.”

LIE: WT: Talked about God “training other human beings to become God.”

COMMENT: This is a heretical statement. We can never become God. God is immutable and cannot change. Read: footnote #2 in Final Exit Letter to Craig Winters of Philadelphia Church of God.

WT: “We could be keeping Passover for all eternity.” (And he wouldn’t mind that at all.)

COMMENT: This is false since to observe the Passover is to say Jesus never came. (See our Q&A “How can I observe Passover if I’ve left the group?“

WT: We are each responsible for Christ’s death, no matter how “nice” we think we are.

WT:”How many times have you and I killed Christ with our sins?”

COMMENT: Placing blame on members again when it was Christ who gave His life willing and who died for us.

WT: “There are so few that have their hearts and minds that are malleable, are teachable, are correctable, that are easily led.”

COMMENT: Cults want a passive people.

LIE: WT: “The majority fell away after HWA died (in 1986) because they were looking to the man.”

COMMENT: That is not true. The majority left for offshoots in 1995 after the new changes or they left and didn’t go anywhere. It was GF that was disfellowshipped in 1989 and founded PCG that same year. In the 70’s there were seventy ministers, along with 11,000 members, who defected the WCG. Read: Worldwide Church of God History

WT: “Will you take a stand when HQs is attacked?”

WT: Read from a 2006 Royal Vision where GF said members “must have a total commitment to the point of shedding their own blood.”

COMMENT: Does he think HQs is going to be attacked? Will members be facing death someday?

WT: “Always be asking God to cleanse us of our sins and to purify us.”

COMMENT: Read The Sin Question.

WT: “If we live for God, we will put Christ to death less often.”

COMMENT: Placing blame on members. Christ died for His sins. We did not put him to death.

Conclusion:

I almost felt sorry for the members (and youth) who had to listen to this hogwash and never came to understand what Christ Jesus really did for them in His death and resurrection.

Sermon critiqued by L. S.
Exit & Support Network™
March 27, 2021

Note: Wayne Turgeon is the son in law of Gerald Flurry.

READ: Crazy statement by Wayne Turgeon (What Wayne Turgeon once said)

Related Letters / Testimony:

Grant Turgeon Has an Attitude (2013 letter to ESN) (Grant Turgeon is the son of Wayne Turgeon. He became a local elder in Edmond on October 11, 2022.)

Gerald Flurry Said to “Clean House!” (Someone who worked as Wayne Turgeon’s office aid tells an interesting story about Turgeon in this 2017 letter to ESN)

Abusive Experiences With Wayne Turgeon and Ron Hanson